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pierogieking412 t1_j5ath51 wrote

Remember when there were promises of consumer benefits when they were selling us fracking? When does that kick in?


69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j5btoht wrote

This is the most infuriating shit. We were promised 10-12 years ago that we'd have nearly free heating gas forever if we just let these companies fuck up our water and air. Now they're selling it all to Shell or compressing it and sending it overseas, and we get the awesome cancer risk with no upsides.

They promised us a bunch of good-paying jobs and they all went to road warriors from Texas and Oklahoma.

They promised landowners that they'd get lucrative lease agreements and they spun off their pipeline operations and charged themselves fees that they could take out of leaseholder payments.
I don't know how many times extractive industries have to shit on us before we figure out that they're all snakes, now and forever.


WorstTimeCaller t1_j5cakys wrote

And we can’t have a severance tax because it would cut into all of those benefits


mmphoto412 t1_j5bxgr5 wrote

Right after i get my property tax rebate from the casino


KentuckYSnow t1_j5deaon wrote

Idk where you live, but in the city, that's like a 30k reduction to the school property tax assessment which is worth around 300 bucks.


pa_bourbon t1_j5b2dnx wrote

Go look at this chart. Shale boom around here started just before 2010. Prices stayed low until the silliness with Russia and Ukraine started. Russia supplied much of Europe’s gas and that ended when the war started. That was a huge global supply disruption and prices followed.

The shale effect absolutely existed for more than a decade. The chart shows it.


pierogieking412 t1_j5bfyif wrote

So all of this was for 10 years of cheap gas?

That's a horseshit deal for us.


dingurth1 t1_j5c5uwk wrote

for the record and some perspective regarding that chart, $9 is the US historical average. We didn't even touch that with the spike in prices this past year. People are so used to rock bottom energy prices we're complaining about something that's still under the average.

Meanwhile the rest of the world is paying 4-6x what we are. So in that regard we still have it quite good.


NewUse2430 t1_j5cwehm wrote

Just imagine when clean, fresh water supply becomes commoditized.


pa_bourbon t1_j5bie7j wrote

Shale swells are still producing. The Russian gas has basically been taken off the market. Supply disruption = price hikes.


Excelius t1_j5fi0n4 wrote

We'd probably be looking at actual shortages right now without that domestic capacity, instead of just uncomfortably high prices.


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5d98hu wrote

Can’t disagree. However the negative environmental impact of fracking and the delay it caused to the transition to actually clean energy was not worth it. Completely short sighted.


KentuckYSnow t1_j5der11 wrote

There's no such thing as clean energy. It all has environmental drawbacks, from dammed valleys to eagles whose wings get chopped off. The materials used to store electricity to avoid burning fossil fuels are themselves terrible to extract from the environment, but like much else, it shifts the problem elsewhere and it's out of sight, out of mind.


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5emvdt wrote

Everything has drawbacks. Renewables and nuclear just has fewer drawbacks than fossil fuels.

Critical minerals in batteries are more than 95% recyclable with today’s technology so that isn’t as big of a deal as people think.


neglectedselenium t1_j5e8s4k wrote

Don't worry about them lithium batteries. There are other more common metals which could replace lithium, like sodium.


pittpajamas t1_j5b4ghz wrote

Is there a point to your argument? Maybe the chart was the point? Not getting it.


pittpajamas t1_j5b3w2y wrote

It will kick in right after the taxpayer benefits from casinos kicks in. Not a great state to live in. As soon as they try to reassess my house, I'm gone. Probably to WV or OH. PA does not respect the taxpayers.


Krane412 t1_j5c15mn wrote

If there wasn't fracking it'd be even higher. Thank Vladmir Putin for invading Ukraine and pushing up natural gas prices worldwide. It's a globally traded commodity, the U.S. has been exporting more to Europe so they're not dependent on Russia.

>U.S. LNG exporters boosted shipments to Europe by more than 137% in the first 11 months of 2022 from the same period in 2021,


pierogieking412 t1_j5cba41 wrote

Good for them for taking advantage of the situation and making money, but we've suffered. We were promised dirt cheap energy, and instead were middle of the pack when it comes to how much people pay in each state.


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5d9dhs wrote

Dirt cheap energy only if you don’t include the social cost of carbon


imouttahereta t1_j5ds74q wrote

Yeah let's get rid of that and use wind and solar instead. Works great in Pittsburgh, and I didn't want heating in the winter anyway.


PsychologicalAerie53 t1_j5en2e7 wrote

No one is calling for the sudden shutdown of fossil fuel sources. It is a transition and fossil fuels will continue to play an important role.

My comment is that the fossil fuels are “cheap” only because the actual damaging effects of them are not priced into what the consumer sees.


neglectedselenium t1_j5e8wxx wrote

You can have dirt cheap energy right now but you need to install solar power panels on your roof. They are record cheap and will continue getting cheaper


SayTheLineBart t1_j5enq9n wrote

You need storage (battteries) too. I’m in Hawaii and even here it with so much sun you need a lot of panels and batteries to be self sufficient. It’s an investment with a lot of up front cost.


KentuckYSnow t1_j5d5pzf wrote

It kicks in when we aren't shipping liquified gas to Europe to keep their heating bills down when they don't want to buy from Russia.


cdelaney1982 t1_j5bdcye wrote

My laundry smells funny that part of those?


ExitMusic_ t1_j5ba7vu wrote

holy shit, no kidding.


jetsetninjacat t1_j5c8g61 wrote

How many steelers and penguin starter jackets can I throw on top of my house to stop this madness?


Jagsoff t1_j5dk9mr wrote

You def might find some pirates gear at st vinnies or goodwill.


kimbecile t1_j5avv30 wrote

I'm dreading mine. It ran nonstop and never got above 59 during that cold snap. I fully anticipate at least $600


CARLEtheCamry t1_j5blrl0 wrote

Similar situation, and my bill is $328. Still hurts and is about double what it usually is, but given the extreme low temperatures not surprised.


69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j5btuxt wrote

Budget plan takes the edge off.


merkinmavin t1_j5cro7w wrote

Until it gets out of hand and you owe a huge bill on your true-up date. My budget was set two years ago and it's becoming clear I need them to revise it.


69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j5g1o54 wrote

It gives you some leeway to put money aside for when they true up. I live in a 110 year old house, 1800sf, and I've never got a shock bill in May when Columbia trues up.


kimbecile t1_j5fch2a wrote

I make my own budget plan. I give 150 a month regardless. So I should have a good buffer in there for now.


pAul2437 t1_j5cvf14 wrote

That’s a house or heater problem


kimbecile t1_j5fclf0 wrote

Both. Old as hell house and I won't discuss the furnace situation here.


av-gas t1_j5di2f1 wrote

Lots of old houses without much insulation around Pittsburgh. And now new heating units tend to be more 'efficient' but they just run more often because they can't heat up the house.


beren0073 t1_j5fcvbs wrote

This is only the case if the new furnace was undersized for the load. More efficient is more efficient, but if you put in an efficient furnace that's only rated for 1/2 to 2/3 of the load it has to supported, you're going to be cold.

Properly sized high efficiency furnaces with variable or two-stage blowers will run longer at a lower burn rate, and shift to 100% when needed.


69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j5g1uld wrote

I've got an 1800 square foot 110 year old house and I pay $128 a month. Are people keeping their houses at 75 F all winter? Just put a sweater on and run it at 67 F.


emilyquinn5 t1_j5cwe3h wrote

Holy shit mine was almost $500


Akovsky87 t1_j5bimnj wrote

If it makes you feel any better we moved from Maine before winter. Based on our rate of consumption and the price of heating oil our heating bill would have been around $4000 for the winter.


BlackLesPaulCopy t1_j5csmtd wrote

I did the equalizer plan thing. Pay a bill in the summer, but at least it's spread out and predictable.


Spicercakes t1_j5czl6p wrote

Same except it was my almost $400 electric bill for my small 2BR apartment. I knew that our electricity bills were going to increase by up to 30%, but GODDAMN.


KentuckYSnow t1_j5df3zc wrote

Setting like 40 % of electricity is generated by gas. They talk a lot of shit about putting people on all electric, but you don't hear a lot about replacing that generating capacity. Nuclear could easily do it.


chuckie512 t1_j5gniwu wrote

The majority of our generation here in Pittsburgh comes from the Beaver nuclear plant


lazoras t1_j5c3t6w wrote

grid tied solar + battery gas bill...half the year you get paid...the other half you pay them and it comes out to be pretty much free electricity for the year


jirenlagen t1_j5e536g wrote

That’s assuming you have the money to set that up.


alwaysboopthesnoot t1_j5ey0ut wrote

Insulate, regulate, repair/upgrade, transition.

We blew in new insulation in the attic, which helped with both cooling and heating bills. Replaced 4 windows (of 13), along the back of the house where the sun is worse in the Summer but the wind is pretty bad in Winter. House is now easier and cheaper to cool and heat.

Next step: more windows, in phases. And then more insulation wherever we can add it. Possibly, within 5-6 years, a new roof.

For the future: solar panels/battery storage. Columnar wind turbine.

The point being, you plan for the future right now. You invest what you can now, up front, to make things more efficient or affordable, later. You reap whatever benefits you can fet out of your efforts, now.


CL-MotoTech t1_j5bg62s wrote

I managed to pay ahead a good $600 on mine. My bill was $230 for December, and I used less gas by 20% than I did last December. I am not looking forward to where I am in April.


AnonPlzzzzzz t1_j5cye4h wrote

"I guarantee you we're going to end fossil fuels"

Maybe don't vote for the person that says he's going to "end" what you heat your home with and then act shocked when the price goes up 🤷🏻‍♂️

But I see the "Putin's price hike" propaganda is still working lol. Funny how Putin controls our gas prices when it's said we have more natural gas reserves than the rest of the world. Weird. Must be those greedy corporations... Ya. That's it.


DERBY_OWNERS_CLUB t1_j5dek33 wrote

So much stupidity in one comment, but I'll bite.

The US produced more natural gas in 2021 than any other year in history. 2022 is likely going to be the new record. Biden isn't slowing down natural gas production.

So how did Biden cause prices to rise? By something he said in a campaign speech, I don't know when? If it's as simple as "well he could just PUMP MORE", why didn't Trump pump more?

Putin-apologists are a strange bunch. Interesting comment history defending Russian soldiers too.


AnonPlzzzzzz t1_j5dgqbk wrote

We're importing less gas and exporting more natural gas while our prices rise. Production is increasing but that gas isn't going to us, thus our prices go up because there's no excess to offset record high inflation. Exports are at record highs and imports at near lows. They are sending our gas over seas, along with the hundred billion tax payer dollars they also sent.

Biden said he was going to end fossil fuels (and fossil fuel appliances apparently). And he is. But only for us. Not the rest of the world though who suddenly need our gas because the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was mysteriously destroyed... you know, after Biden said he would destroy it. But totally wasn't him. Nope. Don't listen to his own words.


chuckie512 t1_j5gobpq wrote

>They are sending our gas over seas

They in this case meaning shell and other giant corporations experiencing record profits.

>you know, after Biden said he would destroy it. But totally wasn't him. Nope. Don't listen to his own words.

I think this is the dumbest thing I've read today. Congrats.