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DIWhy-not t1_j0duhvg wrote

Long time food service (in NYC) vet here, including ethnically Asian restaurants.

Sketchy strip-mall Chinese takeout spots aside, there are also certain culinary techniques found in traditional Chinese or Thai cooking that can run afoul of DOH regulations despite not actually being unhealthy or dangerous in any capacity to the customer. Certain wood-fire cooking techniques, fermentation, etc for instance.

But keep in mind that there are plenty of western techniques that are equally as “bad” in the eyes of the DOH. For instance, literally every “house cured xyz” is technically illegal in NYC. I’ve worked in Michelin rated places where the very first thing the chef de cuisine does when DOH walks in is rush to the walk-in or dry stock to shove those house cured charcuteries and air aged cheeses into a sack and toss them into the trunk of their car. There are two VERY famous, multiple Michelin star holding restaurants in midtown Manhattan that I know from seeing with my own eyes have studio apartments rented next door that look like Dexter kill-rooms full of curing meat.

The world renowned named-after-an-address Manhattan establishment can afford to do that to avoid strikes on a DOH report (because the violation isn’t on premise). The traditional Thai start-up restaurant in Crown Heights doesn’t have the resources to do the same to hide their traditionally (and completely safely) home-fermented sausages.

Again, I’m not talking about gnarly hole-in-the-wall roach-infested takeout spots. If there’s been a crackdown on those, it’s probably a good thing for generally public safety. But I’d be interested to see the breakdown of violations. NYCs department of health is notoriously overreaching in terms of what is and isn’t a public health concern (ie if there’s a hand washing sink the correct number of feet from a cook station, with soap, but it doesn’t have paper towels stocked, it’s deemed an unusable sink and points are deducted. Go figure). And that overreach is absolutely a source of income for the city in terms of DOH fines. But they do make damn sure that New York is an, overall, incredibly safe place to eat.


Spacepirateroberts t1_j0e5fmv wrote

Our local (not NYC) health dept doesn't do fines instead viewing the job as educational and the only 'stick' they wield is to close a restaurant with serious violations.


DIWhy-not t1_j0e7b3h wrote

NYC went hardcore with it I believe under Bloomberg when a video of rats crawling all over a closed restraint that someone shot through the windows went viral on national news.

It’s positive and negative, honestly. I mean New York is a HUGE, densely populated, and objectively filthy city with a massive rat and roach problem. Even having been on the wrong end of brutal DOH violations and fines, and even though I think a lot of their rules are absurd and are clearly there to milk money, I think their hardline stance is a net positive.


cincobarrio t1_j0e8aik wrote

Wow yeah, the famous Taco Bell rats, which would go on to be referenced in a beastie boys song. I believe the letter grading system got started right after that.


DIWhy-not t1_j0eatqp wrote

Hahaha, yup! Man, I couldn’t remember if it was a Wendy’s or a Taco Bell!


Mimshot t1_j0f00i9 wrote

And that’s why it went national news: only tourists eat at Taco Bell in nyc.


Spacepirateroberts t1_j0ebqma wrote

That honestly makes a lot of sense, a dirty restaurant here could maaaaaybe get 50-100 people sick in a day. In huge cities being way more stringent makes sense as a whole lot more people can be affected.


KingFucboi t1_j0f3abt wrote

Keep in mind there are good reasons the health department doesn’t trust places to ferment and age their own products.

“Perfectly safe” is not how I would describe apartment cured meat.


HermitGardner t1_j0ggpik wrote

I think your example of house cured meats is really obscure …. 30 years food service, owned my own restaurant in Brooklyn 10 years, EC multiple places and Sous, etc. The DOH info is public record so you can look that up whenever you want. The health department is literally REQUIRED to find something wrong. There is always something. But they never write citations for everything. If they did, the NYC industry would just shut down. Look, I love Chinatown. But it’s pretty gross dude. I don’t think that these fines are based on traditional techniques, I think they’re based on regular fines mostly cleanliness. I mean look, we work 12/14 hour days. Those guys work 18 hours every single day 7 days a week 365. Without mats, often in sandals, sleep in cramped bunks. They are not scrubbing the hood down or cleaning the fryer regularly. And there is ALWAYS food, not just dry goods and produce, like meat and fish- out on the sidewalk. I think that in comparison to the rest of the restaurant culture in NYC they are really substandard.


doglessinseattle t1_j0ep51k wrote

Super interesting. Thanks for your comment.

I visited Ireland a decade ago and iirc every restaurant window had a sign/sticker for a hotline you were supposed to call if you ate there and had gastrointestinal distress later. I really wish health departments crowdsourced data in that way.


minuialear t1_j0hovac wrote

There are way too many people in NYC for such a system to be feasible by a government agency.

At best maybe an app that just marks a map where people report getting sick or something could be feasible, but the city probably isn't the best organization to make such an app, and they probably don't have the money to keep it going anyway


CatOfGrey t1_j0e2ji5 wrote

I'm curious - could there be a relationship with recent immigrants owning restaurants?

I'm thinking about Los Angeles, where a random taco shop might be 3rd generation, but the Chinese food place is more likely to be owned by someone whose family arrived in 2010, so they aren't 'raised with US practices' like different demographic groups.

A long term solution might be education of these folks to prevent problems.


paceminterris t1_j0fs2l4 wrote

How come, when it comes to light that Asian restaurants are being disproportionately handed bad health inspections - everyone always jumps on blaming Asians or assuming that the inspections are objective - but when it is brought up that black people are disproportionately arrested, the whole world jumps to the conclusion that it is ONLY because police are racist and that is is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE that black people might, in fact, commit more crimes?

Typical Reddit racism. Americans recognize the mistreatment of non-Asian (black, hispanic, TQIA++) minorities, yet gaslight Asians for the racism they face and refuse to acknowledge that Asians are the last minority all Americans can discriminate against and still be accepted.


luciensadi t1_j0gr0is wrote

I don’t think I’ve seen the term TQIA++ before, what does it stand for in your context here?


TheSinningRobot t1_j0guluw wrote

What an unbalanced argument.

One of those statements is simply saying that one culture has some differences in how they prepare food. The other statement is saying, this group of people is more likely to commit crimes because of the color of their skin. If you believe those two statements are the same type of discrimination, you're delusional.

Not to mention the fact, that the difference being pointed out here is about Chinese people coming here from a completely different culture, versus the culture of a group of people who have been here since the birth of the nation.


CatOfGrey t1_j0i376o wrote

>How come, when it comes to light that Asian restaurants are being disproportionately handed bad health inspections - everyone always jumps on blaming Asians or assuming that the inspections are objective

If you look at my comment, I've answered your question. More specifically, I've asked a question of someone with expertise.

My hypothesis: it's not a race issue, it's an issue of recent immigration. Restaurant owners that recently immigrated may be less informed of specific health codes, and practice as they have learned. So when different populations have different immigration histories, it's not a race issue, but something else!

That said, you'll notice that the intent of my question is actually to solve this issue, not put restaurant owners out of business.


minuialear t1_j0hrjbh wrote

Ignoring how patently absurd most of your comment is, I don't think people are trying to "blame" Asians. I see people wondering if specific circumstances they've observed with Asian restaurants in their area (circumstances which aren't even objectively negative) are causing the disproportionate citations. Wondering if Asian immigrants may be disproportionately targeted because their traditional cooking methods may not comport with NY rules is hardly blaming Asians or arguing that the rules are fair. Nor is pointing out that other restaurants with more wealth have the means to skirt around the same regulations. It's simply identifying a potential reason for the disproportionate treatment that deserves further attention.

If this IS the reason why Asian restaurants get cited the most, for example, then it seems like maybe NYC needs to reconsider how it evaluates cooking practices or needs to evaluate restaurants in a way that would catch the Michelin star restaurant who cures its meat next door, in addition to the mom and pop restaurant that doesn't have the means to hide their meats.

Blaming Asians would be saying things like "Well yeah immigrants don't clean their restaurants so this tracks"/"Yeah I'm not familiar with these completely benign practices and therefore agree they're gross and should be banned"/equally racist statements


Lutra_Lovegood t1_j0fye41 wrote

> the Chinese food place is more likely to be owned by someone whose family arrived in 2010

What's your source?


CatOfGrey t1_j0hjdu6 wrote

Living in San Gabriel. It's a dominantly Asian area, surrounded by dominantly Latino areas. 20+ meals a year out of restaurants where the owners and staff service almost zero White people.

It's not a scientific survey. It's also not without basis.


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Maxfunky t1_j0f5bub wrote

It's not calling someone "stupid" too suggest that people who come from another country may not be familiar with the food safety standards here. It's not as if those standards are universal. It is indeed the case that often immigrants don't know that some of their traditional practices won't be acceptable under their local food code.


CatOfGrey t1_j0eowcl wrote

I'm asking a question of someone who seems to have more experience. Not making any sort of judgement.

The intent is to figure out the best way to serve the public. Regulations are a common way that immigrants get screwed, and I would like to prevent that.


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CartmansEvilTwin t1_j0f2hka wrote

I'm just saying that thinking this is racist is uneducated (or even stupid) on multiple levels.

Maybe read the definition of racism again?


AadamAtomic t1_j0f30c0 wrote

>I'm just saying that thinking this is racist is uneducated (or even stupid) on multiple levels.

calling Immigrants stupid, and suggesting that they need education camps like Canada, U.S, and the british empire did to natives and black people, is indeed a racist thing to say.


MolassesFast t1_j0f8d13 wrote

Show me in their comment were they said either of those things.


thefi3nd t1_j0f8mgq wrote

Why are you forcing 'camps'? Why not something realistic like a short online Udemy-style course in order to get a restaurant license?

Help to educate people that don't have experience with local food regulations so that they don't get fined? Must be racist!


goopsnice t1_j0fida5 wrote

I’m not saying I’d make the same comment but you’re projecting so much onto what they’re saying.

Asking if people don’t know American regulations because they’ve recently moved to America and saying if so it would be good to inform them of regulations is a pretty benign take. I don’t think they worded it great to be fair but god damn, you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill talking about colonial education camps.


OpossomMyPossom t1_j0eirch wrote

Ya health departments don't like fermentation. Kinda stupid. Just a warning like raw meat.


Maxfunky t1_j0f4xjv wrote

You just need a HACCP plan in most places. I mean, demonstrate that you know what you're doing cause botulism is kind of a big deal. It's really not a high bar but people don't like paper work . . .


OpossomMyPossom t1_j0gpjql wrote

That's not the same everywhere. Where I live you need an entirely separate kitchen.


Maxfunky t1_j0gttnd wrote

That would be a requirement if you want to do wholesale. Like, you want to put kimchi in jars with labels and sell it. If you were just serving house-made kimchi (like on a plate) I doubt that would be a requirement. And yes, it does vary from place to place, but this is likely the most common way to do it.


Twerp129 t1_j0gakp5 wrote

2001-2017 there were 20 cases of botulism from commercially prepared food, the vast majority were homeade foods.


Maxfunky t1_j0glldt wrote

From the perspective of your local health department, the difference between something that's homemade versus something that's commercially prepared is whether or not you have submitted your HAACP plan. It's very possible to be served something at a restaurant that would be considered "homemade".


Twerp129 t1_j0gpzzp wrote

Doesn't seem that's the case from reading the report.


Maxfunky t1_j0guaik wrote

I mean I didn't see a detailed enough breakdown. Obviously the potato salad is homemade in a more traditional sense and that's the most prominent example.


derefr t1_j0fha4d wrote

> The world renowned named-after-an-address Manhattan establishment can afford to do that to avoid strikes on a DOH report (because the violation isn’t on premise). The traditional Thai start-up restaurant in Crown Heights doesn’t have the resources to do the same to hide their traditionally (and completely safely) home-fermented sausages.

Sounds like an opportunity to build some sort of culinary co-op meat curing warehouse (probably out in Queens.)


AppealDouble t1_j0hqnfe wrote

If employees have to dry their wet hands on their clothes or keep them damp (more efficient germ transfer) then that nearly defeats the point of washing your hands. It’s not an overreach to say the employer has not provided an adequate hand washing station.


Fryceratops t1_j0he1yi wrote

And some of those write ups are for things like not having a Serve Safe certified staff member


GiannisToTheWariors t1_j0f7cj3 wrote

My girl once saw a roach walking across the chow mein in a hole in the wall spot. She told the server. The server saw it, took the serving tongs and mixed the roach into the chow mein and smiled back at her.


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DIWhy-not t1_j0e7r5g wrote

100%. They walk in with that “I’ve had a bad day” face and you’re getting fucked.


Maxfunky t1_j0f5tcj wrote

Other way around, honestly. A bad day means you can't be bothered to be strict. It's more work to really do a detailed inspection and far easier to be an "above the waist" inspector.


Skreat t1_j0fc68e wrote

>There seems to be no rhyme or reason why one inspector will site something and another will ignore the same thing.

Company I work for builds powerlines, same thing happens with Quality Assurance inspectors. One guy likes to see stuff this way while another sees it that way.


alinroc t1_j0hi6ne wrote

I'm sure building code inspectors operate the same way.


senorglory t1_j0fmbv0 wrote

What is the difference between a chef and an executive chef?


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senorglory t1_j0fy618 wrote

Is there also a kitchen manager, or is that part of the executive chef role too?


TheSinningRobot t1_j0gvfez wrote

I mean, according to the study, there clearly is a rhyme to it. It's that Chinese restaurants are more likely to be issued citations.


crab_races t1_j0du0sh wrote

Yah, my initial thought was, "umm... I have been in some very less than stellar Asian restaurants over the years," so that they had a higher violation rate made sense to me.

But then reading the paper, it was a trend, with violations for 2020 spiking from 2017, 18 and 19, while non-Asian restaurant violations dropped from the same period.

It was a 0.66% increase though. I'd love to get the data and test myself whether what was statistically significant.

I'd also be interested in baseline violation rates by cuisine types. I wonder where each type falls and if there are statistical differnces.


Hawx74 t1_j0hby9y wrote

>It was a 0.66% increase though. I'd love to get the data and test myself whether what was statistically significant.

I'd also be very interested to see if the trends could be split up by inspector to see if it was a few that had a large increase, or a small potentially insignificant increase across the board


cjc323 t1_j0h5dy2 wrote

just trying to bate people into hate arguments, i love reddit but wish there was a way to vet stuff better


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LindseyElkadim t1_j0dvwha wrote

I worked at a restaurant supply and cleaning company. On average it was the Asian restaurants that never cleaned filters, grease traps floors etc. rats would spill out of these places


RopeNRelaxation t1_j0e5zuq wrote

I work as an inspector in the private sector, and I can attest from my experience that migrants of many nationalities have knowledge deficits in terms of food safety principles. I will also note that communicating with such individuals can be very difficult to the point where you may overlook something you observe to bypass the communication barrier that will ensue when you attempt to ask questions required for documentation. I could definitely see biases during covid leading inspectors to stick it out in these situations instead of letting it go. Additionally, many restaurants I've been to haven't even had a DOH inspection since 2019, which leads me to believe these inspectors/administration may have been selective in who they were choosing to visit.

While I agree that many processes used in ethnic cuisines, such as fermentation, can be done in a safe manner there are very good reasons backed in food science of why these processes need to be highly controlled.


grundar t1_j0exyog wrote

Link to paper.

Figure 2 shows the basis of their analysis; cumulative ratings showed a small increase for Asian restaurants and were more-or-less flat for others.

Figure 5 shows the differences they report between their modeled synthetic ratings and the actual ratings. There's a clear increase for Asian restaurants (black line), although arguably it's continuing the trend from the prior few months. Three other lines have slight declines (Latin, Italian, Mexican), and two have slight increases (Caribbean, American). The paper says the two with increases can't be counted, but doesn't clearly explain why:
> "We were able to find robust synthetic controls for many cuisines, but were unable to calculate robust controls for Caribbean and American cuisines. Yet for Caribbean and American cuisines, the gap between actual and synthetic does not change before and after December 2019.
> For both American and Caribbean cuisines no conclusions can be drawn regarding their synthetic controls since it assigned a weight of 1 to Italian and Latin cuisines respectively, meaning that their comparison groups are not a weighted average of other cuisines but rather only one cuisine that resembles them the most."

First, I don't see how their model could reasonably assign all of its weight for American to Italian and for Caribbean to Latin. Looking at Figure 1, the monthly citations for American (dark purple) are very different from those for Italian (light purple); in particular, Italian has a huge spike down in the second half of 2021 whereas American is largely flat over that period, making it much more similar in movement to Latin. Similarly, the monthly citations for Caribbean (green) are very different from those for Latin (red); in particular, Caribbean has a massive spike up and down, totally unlike the relatively-flat Latin.

Second, it's simply not the case that the gap for these cuisines does not change before and after December 2019; it's clear from their Figure 5 that both increase, one continuing an increasing trend and the other reversing a (short) declining trend. Perhaps these increases are not statistically significant, but no statistical significance is described or examined anywhere in the paper. Their analysis boils down to "look at these lines".

So while I agree with their general premise that anti-Asian racism definitely spiked after covid, and it seems very plausible that that would drive some of the increase seen in citations of Asian restaurants, without actual statistical analysis there's no way to say whether that's just noise in the data or an actual effect. My guess is that there is statistical significance there, but they haven't done the work to allow anyone to conclude that.


esgrove2 t1_j0dxvoy wrote

Why group "Asian food" together? Why not call Italian, French, and Spanish food "European food"? That's a little weird, isn't it? The average Japanese restaurant I've been to has been to cleaner than the average Chinese restaurant.


RigelOrionBeta t1_j0etfct wrote

Because the study I believe is trying to point out how "asian" restaurants were treated differently during early COVID months.

The grouping is the fault of Americans in general. The findings in the study are simply a reflection of that American tendency to group "asian" food together.


Maxfunky t1_j0f6m72 wrote

Speaking from experience, the average Japanese restaurant is run by Chinese immigrants. In my whole city there are 3 Japanese restaurants out of dozens that are actually run by Japanese people.


Gary_Vigoda t1_j0e3psx wrote

I don't get why Americans do this.

I'm Canadian. I have access to Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, restaurants within walking distance.

We have a Chinatown district but it's not just for Chinese people. A lot of the smaller restaurants there are kind of sketchy when it comes to cleanliness but inspectors keep them on their toes.


CartmansEvilTwin t1_j0f389p wrote

It's not an American thing, we do that in Germany too.

The reality is that most "asian" restaurants serve food remotely inspired by a mixture of asian cuisines to cater the local population, and not actual, say, Thai food. There are some places that actually serve actual food from one country/region, but those are rather new and more expensive than the cheap "chinese" takeout place.


WhoopieGoldmember t1_j0fsn3w wrote

On one hand- racism

On the other hand- I sold dish machines and cleaning chemicals to restaurants and you'll never guess which restaurants consistently never saw a need for either.

On a third hand- I stopped trying to sell to Asian restaurants because I love their food and got tired of seeing the conditions of their kitchens and consequently never wanting to eat there again.

*This is somewhat regional. I saw less disgusting kitchens in Asian restaurants in Seattle than I did in the Midwest. Still, the worst kitchens were always Asian food. The worst of the worst? Asian buffets.

*Another side note- Seattle has the best Asian food I've ever eaten but dear God they cannot seem to make a decent pizza.

If you're wondering what the opposite side of that was, the cleanest kitchens were almost always upscale Italian restaurants and Smokehouses. That latter makes sense because they're typically owned by younger generations and they actually follow the rules. The clean places are always mom & pop, though. Chains are always gross (with the exception of Chuy's for some reason? They're incredibly clean also)


The_Cysko_Kid t1_j0dxm4d wrote

Yeah, but ...did they disproportionately have health code violations going on?


Majorjim_ksp t1_j0ejytb wrote

Yeah, maybe they are not racist and those restaurants where actually gross..?


SoybeanCola1933 t1_j0f870y wrote

I used to frequent a particular Indian restaurant, I recall seeing 'chefs' coming into the kitchen wearing Hi-Vis construction shirts. Thought it was a bit sketchy.

Later I started noticing hair in my food and cockroach poop in the takeaway containers.

Different cultures have different standards for food hygiene so im glad NYC health inspectors are cracking down


Ecra-8 t1_j0f9kfp wrote

I guess when the health department found raw meat hanging in the alley by clothespins off an extension cord used as a rope at the Chinese buffet close to me they were targeting the restaurant because they were Asian.....

Or it could be a cultural thing....

Only the powers of science can reveal the truth of what disproportionate means.


Palamedestarot t1_j0eyjr8 wrote

Hiring the most undocumented workers comes with consequences


IamWisdom t1_j0f2fgd wrote

Well maybe asian restaurants should try being cleaner? Like what is this implying.


Badroadrash101 t1_j0e6qf5 wrote

Historically higher rates of violations. So they get extra attention.


Shnast t1_j0fny8j wrote

A very 2D way of looking at that data is to misinterpret it as discrimination. Perhaps restaurants that feature Asian cuisine ARE in fact in violation of more policies than other restaurants. That would be the question. Instead of "why do they hate us" it should be "why are we getting so many citations". I imagine it's not to hard to conceive that immigrants in general will violate more health codes than others. This is not discrimination. This is a simple fact using logic. If I myself travel to a country where I don't really speak the language so well, and I was not raised there, then I can predict will great veracity that I will accidentally be violating some aspect of their policies. Due to lack of familiarity and language barrier. I would learn the hard way by getting citations. Then I would know. If I was stuck in my own way of doing things and didn't listen then I might get multiple citations. The next data point to look at would be foreign dishes and immigrant owned restaurants in general. I can bet that this category alone has a higher number of citations for the reasons I already listed. This is not xenophobic. This is logical reality. Now why might we expect to see a higher number of Asian restaurants getting citations in that sub-group of immigrant owned establishments? Simple. Because there is MORE of them. IF you grab a census of any given city and compare all the non "American food" places you'll find there is a plethora of Asian cuisine compared to the Balkans, or Nigerian themed places. This is easy peezy. Nothing to see here.


Alarmed-Accident-716 t1_j0f0cdr wrote

I mean, China town was selling turtles in buckets on street corners less than 20 years ago. The place makes fantastic food, but can’t say I expect anything there to be clean.


Maxfunky t1_j0f6v6h wrote

They still do, but only around Chinese new years. Lots of live animal sales that don't happen as much the rest of the year.


boshlop t1_j0fvqcv wrote

probably accurate. i would trust about 2 chinese places in my town if i had any standards and actually expected something from them.

especially during covid, ppl just got worse at everything. quite roads? best speed and drive on the phone. no inspections? why clean.


PeterJordanDrake t1_j0flkm9 wrote

Not for nothing I see their dudes in cook smocks and pants fishing in the lower Hudson. Filling up 5 gallon buckets with little downriver factory runoff fish sooo


Remarkable-Formal-70 t1_j0gi4tw wrote

Because racism is ignored as long as it is against Asians and Caucasians. Hypocritical douchebaggery at it's zenith.


enigmaroboto t1_j0ho2kg wrote

Have you ever noticed how much people spit, fart, and blow snot out one nostril in Asian areas. Different hygiene norms. Just saying .


unripenedboyparts t1_j0i50c7 wrote

I thought Asians went to the bathroom to blow their noses.

I'm half-joking, but I've definitely never noticed that Asians are less hygienic than anyone else. Income seems to be the bigger factor.


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PriorTable8265 t1_j0emnxy wrote

Reading the comments about how there's financial incentives for the city to produce income and for restaurants to cut corners.. everyone has their hand in everyone else's pockets. Civil government work should be like a 10 year duty as a citizen and not a self serving institution.


DemonGroover t1_j0f917x wrote

Yeah this has to be racism. No other reason at all.


hanatheko t1_j0fabtn wrote

... or maybe these types of establishments are dirtier.


Zeduca t1_j0gj9zh wrote

Walk through some restaurant kitchens of various types and you won’t be surprised.


DaedricDrow t1_j0gnt61 wrote

Were they following the rules? It can be disproportionate but not false


laioren t1_j0htuwv wrote

I couldn't find an actual link in this article to a peer-reviewed study itself, and nothing in the article addresses what the findings of these citations were or were purported to be.

The article mentions comparisons to other "ethnic" foods, but only mentions "Latin, Italian, and Mexican," of which, there are FAR more types of ethnic restaurants in New York. Nor does it address rate changes among "American" restaurants. More importantly, it doesn't compare rates among restaurants specializing in cuisine from other countries that spawned global pandemics. It also sets its goalposts in an incredibly narrow margin and presents the "increase" in a "percentage above estimated norms" which is at 66%, which may be well within conventional, marginal swings.

This is either not good science or not good science reporting.


JamesRobertWalton t1_j0irghk wrote

This happened in the early months of 2020 because everyone was afraid of the new novel virus coming out of China. Chinese restaurants they often buy their food from China, which has basically no food regulation compared to the US. We knew almost nothing about Covid at the time & being extra careful with at-risk populations is completely normal, so what’s the big deal?


frakthawolf t1_j0f8unr wrote

Have they explored the biases/influences of the inspectors?


orangutanDOTorg t1_j0favqo wrote

Are they going to change the health codes so they affect every cuisine equally?


NBPaintballer t1_j0fncvu wrote

I used to work at a 241 pizza in Northern Ontario, and one day I saw a gang of ants carrying away a slice of pizza out the front door. Still don't know what to think


logan5_standing_by t1_j0fifvw wrote

So a spike in anti Asian racism in one of the most liberal cities in the country … go fig


theAmericanStranger t1_j0et46r wrote

>After analyzing the gaps between the predicted figures and the actual figures, they found an increase of .66% of citations for Asian restaurants over the studied period.
>By contrast, when comparing the predicted figures to the cumulative monthly averages for the categories of Latin, Italian, and Mexican restaurants, they found a consistent decrease of .29%, .73%, and .69%, respectively.

I'm certain the The China scare had a part in this, me and my GF made a point to continue eating in Chinatown after everyone else fled, but maybe this is not a shattering difference? I would hope these trends reverted back to the norm by now.


qwerty4007 t1_j0edqvv wrote

So, what's the connection to the COVID outbreak?


JoeViturbo t1_j0eos45 wrote

The belief and widely repeated theory that COVID came from a wet market.


JoeViturbo t1_j0ep6sp wrote

The health inspectors heard news organizations speculating that COVID was spawned in a Chinese wet market and decided to take it upon themselves to use their status as a way to crack down on Asian restaurants.

I'd say these restaurants have grounds to sue. But, it'll be easier to win against the city health department than the news organizations that were spreading racist theories without any evidence.


rearviewviewer t1_j0e7jjt wrote

Because they’re dirty places with unsanitary practices


striderwhite t1_j0e987j wrote

Exactly...they don't care much about foolx safety.


88dude t1_j0e1ig4 wrote

Because they was nasty


nitko87 t1_j0dr6ko wrote

Could it be that Asian food has a higher margin of error in safe preparation than other cultures? Remember that many Asian dishes feature raw or intentionally undercooked meats, which, while often delicious, do run the risk of getting you sick.

But no, I think you’re right, the health inspectors are clearly racist and definitely not just issuing citations that reflect the proportion of foodborne illnesses in America stemming from instances in Asian restaurants.


KamikazeArchon t1_j0dszls wrote

How are you counting that? It seems to me that very few Asian dishes feature raw or intentionally undercooked meats, as compared to American dishes. There's one specific category, sushi. Besides that, there's what? A few niche delicacies? No one is cooking medium-rare chicken teriyaki or any of the other staples of Asian restaurant food.

Meanwhile, "how cooked do you want it" is a standard question for any place that serves beef in America. Every place that serves steak will give it to you undercooked. Even burger chains like Red Robin will offer you "medium" or "some pink" or equivalent. To say nothing of how many eggs are eaten undercooked - poached, sunny side up, anything like that is undercooked enough to require a warning label.


jack-jackington t1_j0dso0g wrote

That could be, but then you’d expect to see the same rate of citations before Covid, or a similar rate increase across all types of restaurants if enforcement suddenly stepped up.

How’s your knee?


racerx21 t1_j0e40uq wrote

I used to work in a restaurant next to an Asian style restaurant.

The health inspector came through and looked disturbed, I asked him what was up, he said he had been at the Asian place next door all morning because they found cat and dog carcasses in the dumpster.

desirable cooking practices.

Or racism.... one of those....