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inthedollarbin t1_j8tc4rj wrote

Framing cost-cutting as an effort to protect quality


lightsongtheold t1_j8tz0qv wrote

Crazy how few folks on Reddit realise the truth of this. They are cutting $3 billion of content. Of course they cannot afford as many Star Wars or Marvel shows. They will up the volume again if folks start churning out and the cutting loses them more subscription revenue than it gains in budget savings.


Worthyness t1_j8vn3we wrote

Maybe giving them a lower budget will force them to actually get creative lol


Feniksrises t1_j8wdby0 wrote

Remember reality TV? That's what cable turned to in order to lower costs.


poolamoffa t1_j8wrniu wrote

I’d watch big brother Death Star edition


nnuu t1_j8wx9kv wrote

I'd watch Survivor: Jedi vs Sith


ANewEraOfOpinion t1_j90sr1d wrote

Maybe we’re about to enter the era of content creators making TV shows / movies on their YouTube platforms.


GDawnHackSign t1_j8yo8fc wrote

> Crazy how few folks on Reddit realise the truth of this.

Reddit is so polarized about Disney it is almost impossible to have a sane conversation. Either they hate everything the mouse does or they love it and that doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion.


theDart t1_j8us0p0 wrote

MARVEL HEAD WRITER: "Qu...ali...ty??"


garlicroastedpotato t1_j8u26c5 wrote


Disney's old CEO booked a lot of content as being profitable that wasn't... including the Marvel and Star Wars themed shows. If you had the same subscriber count watching 1/3 of the shows they'd make way more money.


ptwonline t1_j8vcrm5 wrote

It's definitely cost-cutting, but I suspect they are also hoping that more focus on fewer projects also helps the quality.

Anyway for a few years now I've been thinking that Disney probably needs a third tentpole franchise of some kind (if you don't count their animation as one already) just so they could dial back on Marvel in particular, but also Star Wars a bit. That way instead of giving us 5 movies and 5 shows about Marvel MCU each year, you can cut it back to 3 of each and fill the void with another franchise. Maybe they could even do a Marvel non-MCU franchise of some kind.


Sunkmybttlshp t1_j8ze4ma wrote

It can be both. I was so into SW when I was younger and can't be bothered to watch Andor even though I hear it's good. I also really enjoyed the first (and second?) phase of marvel, really loved the first AntMan, and just don't care to see the new one. Marvel's issue might be lack of overall direction on top of too much content, at least for me.


GDawnHackSign t1_j8yo26j wrote

Doing the right thing because you had no other options is a thing. I won't stand up and cheer but at least it is the right result.


justan0therjeff t1_j8uf2k0 wrote

Cut the Star Wars and Marvel output, increase the Muppets output by 1000%. Instant profits.


Michael_McGovern t1_j8vz0pd wrote

Or go halfway and do Muppets Star Wars and Muppet Avengers.


grafxguy1 t1_j8wn848 wrote

Kermit America
The Winter Scooter
Nick Fozzie
Scarlett Piggy
The IncrAnimal Hulk


Vorpishly t1_j8wpfcq wrote

I would love the shit out of that multiverse series. It can even be completely cannon, just muppets.


grafxguy1 t1_j8z2glz wrote

Damn right. I would totally love to this. The Muppets have tackled other genres before - why not this one!


grimorg80 t1_j8xnmma wrote

I am going to make them on Midjourney RIGHT NOW


0biwanCannoli t1_j8w44da wrote

I want to see Muppet parodies of classic movies.


PloppyTheSpaceship t1_j8w5f5u wrote

I'd watch Muppets Kill A Mockingbird. So long as Sweetums plays Boo Radley.


0biwanCannoli t1_j8w8mj6 wrote

I want to see a Muppets parody of Full Metal Jacket is all of its R-rated glory.


Toihva t1_j8we3gw wrote

Only if Chef is Sgt. Hartman


diacewrb t1_j8wui4w wrote

A Muppet version of An American Werewolf in London would be quite meta, Frank Oz had a part in that movie and The Muppet show playing on the TV was in one of the scenes.


Possible-Extent-3842 t1_j8y4gf4 wrote

Seeing how the best Muppets movies are based on classic literature, I'm surprised they haven't made more in this vein. Give me Muppet Ben-Hur or Muppet Breakfast at Tiffany's! Replace Mickey Rooney with the Swedish Chef!


tqbh t1_j8wtczf wrote

Two years ago, someone re-recorded the whole(!) musical of Hamilton with Muppet voices. I still wonder why no one at Disney jumped at that idea. Especially since Hamilton wouldn't really work as live-action, but as a Muppet movie...


WarcraftFarscape t1_j8wbfor wrote

Or, muppets Star Wars, muppets marvel, muppets avatar, muppets Disney classic to live action


HappyGilOHMYGOD t1_j8tbufr wrote

Idc how much they give us. I just want it to be good like it used to be. Iron man through end game was like 70 percent great movies. A few misses but even those weren't terrible. Now it feels like they have 9 year olds writing their movies


Regula96 t1_j8tiyfg wrote

Yea and if the Star Wars content is Andor or at least Mandalorian quality, good enough.

More Obi-Wan/Boba content? No thanks.


defiancy t1_j8totro wrote

I just want them to make an Obi-Wan show where he is a "ronin" and just goes from place to place solving peoples problems. Like what Star Wars fan would hate that show?

Hell just remake "The Man with No Name" trilogy and just replace "The Man" with Obi-Wan. That shit would be fire.


squirreltalk t1_j8v7y04 wrote

>I just want them to make an Obi-Wan show where he is a "ronin" and just goes from place to place solving peoples problems. Like what Star Wars fan would hate that show?

The mandalorian already had some of that, though.


littleoctagon t1_j8txwsy wrote

He could walk the earth planets like Kane from Kung Fu


hour_of_the_rat t1_j8uebli wrote

This would have been one successful option. How they got it wrong is "quite beyond my capacity".


garlicroastedpotato t1_j8u5a8f wrote

I mean, it's not all the writing, it feels like it's mostly the editing.

Thor Love and Thunder was, particularly bad. The writing was all there for a very dramatic, funny and deep story about a cancer victim that would be relevant not only to Marvel fans but also to people who are suffering with cancer, have family members with cancer or those who have lost people with cancer.

Here you have history's forgotten woman, dumped and abandoned by her boyfriend and largely forgotten to the world. In her desperation she turns to every possible way to treat her cancer.... and it fails, time after time. And so where science failed she turned to magic (almost a line in the film!). She grabs Thor's hammer and becomes Mighty Thor... the hammer sustains her and gives her a boost to survive.... while the treatment is also killing her very slowly. Every time she uses it she gets closer to dying. What a great plot device! You could say that you could have a very deep film focusing mostly on Natalie Portman talking about a lasting legacy and what she hopes to leave the world after she dies. A very real thing and worry for cancer victims... something families often don't get.

Parallel to that story you could have had the story of Gorr the God Butcher... brilliantly played (and wasted) with Christian Bale. A religious man on a dying planet who has had his daughter taken from him while the gods just looked on and laughed. He plots to steal all of the children of the gods (you know... the theme of legacy works here).

These are fantastic story archs, mostly well executed. But there were a lot of small things that kept Oscar award winning performances from shining. It was all of the Taiki Waititi bullshit to try and get laughs. Like every single sad or serious moment would be broken up by a cheap laugh. That's all the flying goats were... .they bridged serious moments with light heartedness.

It also didn't have to have Thor's story in it... at all. That could have all basically been cut out and it could have focused completely around Mighty Thor and the deeper darker story of coming to terms with your own mortality and what you want to leave behind.

I think in that film you can EDIT a really great movie. I think a lot of the "writing issues" were director edits.


overkil6 t1_j8tlgky wrote

They’re basing it on stories that were originally written for 9 year olds. Star Wars was meant for kids too. We just grew up - the content, for the most part, didn’t.


attemptedmonknf t1_j8us2hl wrote

Originally sure, but comics have been increasingly adult oriented for the last 50 years, and have had a lot of complex and well written stories in that time.


Parking_Onion_3846 t1_j8v8oc3 wrote

"Meant for kids" also had a really different meaning when Star Wars came out. All that "meant for kids" meant back then was that it didn't have nudity or gratuitous gore.

It always changes, too. Comics were specifically for kids when the Comics Code took effect in the 50's and into the 60's, but as those kids aged so did comics. By the late 80's and early 90's, comics definitely weren't kids stuff anymore. Spawn was comics grown up, but so was Batman and the X-Men and pretty much the whole stable of comics' evolution from that time.

Star Wars always appealed to more age groups than just kids, but it also grew with the fans who had all those toys as kids; part of its struggles have been because its identity is kind of trapped between misunderstood fan service nostalgia for adults and a marketing engine trying to grow a future fan base through cartoons. Rebels might be designed for kids, but Andor sure wasn't, as one example. A big part of the problem with Star Wars at the moment is that you never really know which one you're going to get... or if they're going to try and make it for everyone, and make no one happy.


UmeshgaarB t1_j8wyvwq wrote

Star Wars movies? Yes probably. But not every piece of content is geared towards kids. With Clone Wars they stopped trying to appeal for kids and instead just went on to tell a good story. The story has now ended up being people's favorite piece of Star Wars content.

It's not that the content didn't grow up. It's essentially just that rhey are forcibly keeping the content back from evolving to something good or even better.


KentuckyFriedEel t1_j9162w5 wrote

Love and Thunder was abysmal crap!!! On paper it was a surefire success! Watiti, bale, portman. Then they crapped the bed


felixsapiens t1_j90p33b wrote

It’s possible you are now older and more discerning than you were twenty years ago….


bcraig8870 t1_j8tjrui wrote

And the same 9 year olds doing their visual effects, although I’m sure it’s more because they’re paying them a shit wage while simultaneously giving them unrealistic deadlines.


attemptedmonknf t1_j8usm3q wrote

Yeah, absolutely none of that blame is on the artists. The studio gives them incredible amounts of work with impossible deadlines.

If you tell your contractor to build an entire house in a week, then don't blame them when your walls are made of cardboard


Worthyness t1_j8vn88s wrote

But also should blame the CEO types of those VFX companies for taking on said impossible deadlines. They're also at fault for just piling up a bunch of shit on their employees and intentionally taking a low bid in order to get the prestige for the work.


Zalack t1_j8xi0n4 wrote

The thing is it's self-selecting. VFX companies that have ethical working environments can't compete with the price point of the sweat shops and go out of business. The number of workers who want to be on the field is just too high.

That's why workers rights either via unions or law is so important.


Dman125 t1_j8u2x59 wrote

6:15 - 7:30 of this is worth a listen. I don’t blame the artists for a moment lol, I commend them for not having burning the studio to the ground yet.


TheWorzardOfIz t1_j8thfx6 wrote

Let's lower the stakes while we're at it


lisa_frank_trapper t1_j8txyz2 wrote

Yoda needs to hang dong.


Frisnfruitig t1_j8w1ibw wrote

Here's the twist... We show it. We show all of it. What's the major thing missing from these Star Wars movies guys? Full penetration.


rip_Tom_Petty t1_j8tymo1 wrote

And get rid of the Skywalkers!!


Iwan4grozny t1_j8vwhyt wrote

Star Wars is a Skywalker Saga.


Loganp812 t1_j8wv9x9 wrote

Except for the parts where it's not.


Iwan4grozny t1_j8yv8vh wrote

so all the unimportant stuff?


garlicroastedpotato t1_j8u1xgw wrote

It's weird... because it really feels like there's no closing that Pandora's Box. Captain America was about stopping the Nazis from winning WW2 through technology. Iron Man was about stopping a CEO from weaponizing the Ironman platform. Thor was about a guy with daddy issues with his brother trying to kill him. Kind of simple stakes. And then you get to Avengers Infinity War and the stakes are.... half of all people dying if they fail. And every movie after that has had similar stakes.

I haven't watched Ant-Man yet. But one of the criticisms I've heard about it is that the stakes feel too small. Like we've become so used to all the stakes being about the end of the world that having stakes that are just, his daughter dies (or whatever it ends up being, haven't watched it yet) is just... too small.


Delamoor t1_j8ujsuo wrote

You've just discovered the trope named 'power creep'.

It's why reboots were, and remain, so popular.

Anime is the ultimate trope-setter in this regard. Shows like Naruto; start with throwing knives well and a few years later They're giant transforming gods fighting on the moon, because... How do you ratchet the stakes back down? Not easily.


fatandlean t1_j8vzl9q wrote

lol. I remember when super saiyan was the unbelievable shit. Now it’s just a hair color.


DisneyDreams7 t1_j8weim8 wrote

One Piece and Dragon Ball are even worse when it comes to power creep


GDawnHackSign t1_j8ys9i9 wrote

I think there is another issue that is a bit along similar lines. Once you get away from origin stories you aren't really showing a world we live in anymore. For the first part of Iron Man it felt like, hey this could really happen, yknow?


hour_of_the_rat t1_j8ue46t wrote

>the stakes feel too small.

I quit Marvel about ten years ago, but I'd prefer a bank heist over saving the world anytime.


Fallcious t1_j8vhxk9 wrote

My opinion on that was that the single hero shows were focused on smaller stakes that only needed one hero (+ sidekicks) to deal with. The team ups (a la Avengers) needed a world threatening enemy or situation to drive a need for the team to assemble. If Iron Man or Spider-Man could deal with it, then why bother?

The latest Doctor Strange movie was more like the earlier movies - it was a smaller threat that only really needed the involvement of Dr Strange and his colleagues.


Takseen t1_j8wzuwj wrote

>The latest Doctor Strange movie was more like the earlier movies it was a smaller threat

Multiverse of madness? The one where the entire multiverse was at risk from an unstoppable reality warper?


Fallcious t1_j8x16wp wrote

I’m going to have to watch it again, but I thought it was Strange’s reckless use of the Darkhold in the other realities which destroyed them, but in our universe he was just trying to stop Maximoff from stealing Chavez dimension jump capabilities. The Illuminati thought Strange was the biggest threat rather than Maximoff. In our reality Maximoff was up to no good and was a rising threat, but I don’t remember her actually putting our reality in jeopardy.


Takseen t1_j8x34yq wrote

I think she wanted to rule rather than destroy the multiverse. But in any case, having one of the other Stranges being responsible for the destruction of one or more universes is pretty high stakes.


garlicroastedpotato t1_j8xob0i wrote

The way incursions were introduced in the universe was via being moving between universes. This created a bridge that connected the two universes and then if one universe doesn't destroy the other... they both get destroyed.

Doctor Strange and America Chavez teleport to a planet that has survived an incursion... but was also the cause of it. Instead of beating Thanos as the Avengers did... they beat him by Doctor Strange casting a spell (via the Darkhold). Which caused an incursion. Moving between universes can cause an incursion if the footprint left is large enough.

With what Strange, America and Witch were doing in the past, it wasn't large enough to cause an incursion. But what Witch intends to do at the end "stealing Chavez's powers and travel to a universe where she has kids" it would cause an incursion. Stopping Scarlet Witch isn't just to save Chavez... but the entire universe.

It's also the sort of really bad explanation of what will end up being the main plot point for the Kang movies. Kang is going to war with other universes and can preserve his reality by destroying their's. This gives impure motives for heroes who want to fight to keep their reality but also don't want to destroy someone else's.


AliceCringekung t1_j8w4p7a wrote

And that’s why the Marvel Netflix shows were so good. Street-level fighting. I fear they’ll ruin it in the Daredevil reboot.


rtseel t1_j8w8yr7 wrote

The new DD will be mostly procedural, with one and done stories per episodes, so I think it will be pretty small in scope.


GDawnHackSign t1_j8ys1tj wrote

Introduce mutants and have a movie about someone trying to get an A in their Organic Chemistry class at Xavier's (Jean Grey's) School for the Gifted. Villains try to stop heroes from remembering how to draw Benzene molecule. Scott Lang teaches Avogadro's number.


autobahn t1_j94qdmq wrote

That's a big thing for me... It feels like every fucking marvel thing is world ending.

Just tell good compelling stories


anasui1 t1_j8tdpwt wrote

rethink about hiring real writers while you're at it


ahintoflime t1_j8tvoso wrote

They hired a real writer for Andor and it was fantastic.


bawk15 t1_j8uxjwe wrote

From the writer who gave us Bourne Trilogy...


anasui1 t1_j8w69l7 wrote

ya slanting the Bournes? Great movies


TheTrueMilo t1_j8wcgqj wrote

And the guy who gave us House of Cards while it was good


WordsAreSomething t1_j8ti7gk wrote

What makes someone a real writer?


Emilysilted t1_j8tkv4k wrote

I downloaded the leaked script for "Star Trek: Generations" from America Online when I was a child. "This sucks" I said, immediately.

I always thought Kevin Feige had a similar "superpower" at the development stage. Like he could just hear 10 pitches and go "sucks, sucks, sucks, good."


dbcanuck t1_j8u3kct wrote

a cursory glance at the screenplays for The Witcher S2, Falcon and Winter Soldier, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Rings of Power, Obi Wan, and The Book of Boba Fett, could have stopped some ~very~ medicore screentime. For the amount of money these studios are paying, they should demand higher quality.

People complain 'oh you're just anti-woke'. Nope, not at all. I'm tired of paint-by-numbers diversity bingo cards being used as a defence mechanism for poor quality screenplays.

The X-Men were the most diverse list of super heroes ever, and people crave their content desperately. House of Dragon played both genders equally sinister and conniving. Even mainstream shows like Law and Order and CSI manage diverse casts where it feels natural and propels content forward not tiktok moments or content created to get a social media hit.


WordsAreSomething t1_j8uaols wrote

So your idea of a real writer is what? Casting different people? Someone else's job?


Parking_Onion_3846 t1_j8v9hoe wrote

> People complain 'oh you're just anti-woke'. Nope, not at all. I'm tired of paint-by-numbers diversity bingo cards being used as a defence mechanism for poor quality screenplays.

If people are suggesting you're racist, maybe it's because you think bad writing means casting and writing stories about non-white people. Diversity wasn't the problem with any of those shows.


anasui1 t1_j8w6gzq wrote

these people must be terminally stupid then because that's not what he's saying at all. He has a problem not with a diverse cast, but with companies using it to shield their garbage ass shows against criticism. But you know, a mere mention of the word "diversity" is enough to drive the Twitter crowd mad, making them impermeable to reason


JewishMaghreb t1_j8w4n4j wrote

I don’t the the script was the issue with all of these shows. Falcon and Winter soldier suffered from the pandemic and choppy pacing/editing. Bobba Fett and Obi Wan were just not entirely thought out.

I do agree about Ms Marvel and She-Hulk, they felt like telling a 35 year old man to write a show that appeals to gen Z and TikTok users. Who knows.. maybe they like it? I couldn’t be bothered


UmeshgaarB t1_j8wz9yg wrote

Falcon and The Winter Soldier had way more glaring issues than just the pandemic. The villain was fucking horrendous. She goes around murders people, then in the end she gets praised as some kind of hero by Sam in the most preaching speech shit I've ever heard.


attemptedmonknf t1_j8usvx8 wrote

Someone who does good writing. Thats always the reddit solution: just use good writing by good writers. It's that simple


rtseel t1_j8w98j2 wrote

> What makes someone a real writer?

A real writer is someone who writes.

A good writer? Now that's a different beast.


Tardis80 t1_j8we82e wrote

I think they are busy working for Amazon on Rings of Power.



rjwalsh94 t1_j8vedv1 wrote

Kinda bullshit that everything on D+ will suffer as a result. The low Andor numbers I hope don’t lead to a reduced budget, but who knows how far along they are on that show in production.

It’s just misstep after misstep. I’m not saying that HBO isn’t in red, because they most certainly are, but you have to create content that is worth watching and not resting on laurels.

If half of these D+ shows got the quality of HBO shows, this might be a different story. The bubble has burst and we’re going back to square one.

Does anyone remember when House of Cards was brand new and streaming was amazing. How far we’ve come in 10 years with oversaturation and lack of quality content. Give people a reason to subscribe - not oh you gotta watch this Marvel show that doesn’t have any purpose despite us saying it does.


GigiRiva t1_j8vx3ep wrote

Considering Andor is the only thing Marvel or Star Wars has produced that is actually aimed at adults and it got the numbers that it did, I doubt replicating that will be a priority anywhere in the business


Yung_Corneliois t1_j8yz2ra wrote

Which is a shame because I feel like the real issue with Andor was that it came out after so many previous flops that no one gave it a chance. It’s the previous show’s poor quality that hurt Andor the most.


lospollosakhis t1_j8wtqq4 wrote

Sadly premium TV doesn’t necessarily make much business sense unless it’s GOT levels of popular. I hate humans lol.


felixsapiens t1_j90pape wrote


The name is synonymous with kids entertainment. I don’t think that is going to change. I open the Disney app and i assume I’m watching family tv.

It’s why I think Doctor Who is an excellent fit for Disney going forward (as long as it keeps it’s unique britishness.)


UmeshgaarB t1_j8wyb0q wrote

That's the problem with having infinite money you can throw on CGI (albeit it still looks shit), but then you choose to skimp out on actually good writers. It just ends up becoming this supremely generic CGI clusterfuck.

Meanwhile HBO chooses to put the budget required for the stuff that needs the high budget, but has way more focus on high quality, well written shows. With the budget Disney+ puts into one show, HBO can make 5-6 well written shows and they can all be critically acclaimed.

It's not just saturation of content, it's oversaturation of how similar they are. They are also way too focused on pleasing all these minorities and pointing fingers at "hey, I bet you've never seen a lesbian character portrayed in a big budget show, or a Bi character, or a muslim character, or a indian etc", the list goes on and on. Don't try to please every type of audience, that's just gonna set you up to fail, concentrate on making good content, and either while it airs or in the long run, the seeds you sow will grow.

I know for sure I don't have any desire to rewatch any of the Disney+ shows. But with other shows I have gone back and watched so many scenes and whole episodes because I just wanna relive the moment.


Fahqbyach t1_j91dygs wrote

This is going to be a controversial take but I think that Disney’s pursuit of presenting an ideal ideological universe in marvel and Star Wars has made the content fairly hollow. I mean to say that there is an emphasis on putting together multicultural cast, on female participation on the writing and directing side. This wouldn’t be problematic if those creatives earned their spot and weren’t just a story artist with a novel idea or if the characters in the shows/movies had a genuine background that brought them together. There is nothing wrong with women’s voices or diverse casts, but when you insist on framing the women characters as anti-establishment and against a patriarchal foe, or act like racism hasn’t created inequities that shape a characters experience and attitude, everything comes off as pandering and insincere


magvadis t1_j8x4bxq wrote

I'm hoping Andor gets renewed and maintained as a passion project because it's the only prestige thing to come out of Star Wars since the Disney acquisition. It's the only meaningful fuckin thing come out of Star Wars since TLJ....only less controversial because it doesn't involve the franchises favorite Marty Stu.


JesusCabrita t1_j8x8pul wrote

They r filming season 2 right now


magvadis t1_j8xaond wrote

I'd take as many seasons as I can get if the 3 part arcs stay this solid.


JesusCabrita t1_j8xb4lk wrote

They will if I remember well, 3 episodes covering 1 year


RealJohnGillman t1_j94b20g wrote

It was pitched as a two-season limited series (after deeming five seasons would take too long and cost too much).


Materia99 t1_j8u5y05 wrote

I can see why. What was the point with Bad Batch or the Echo show. They could focus on quality.

Also Star Wars franchise are stuck in nostalgia. They should push franchise forward by focus on different eras than the ones we know about.


Worthyness t1_j8vnfuz wrote

Bad Batch is basically just a side continuation of Clone Wars. I'm mostly OK with that cause Clone Wars is fun to watch and the lore is really great (when it focuses on that). Echo is basically gonna be Daredevil Season 3.5 to facilitate "New" Daredevil into the MCU web.

That said, if we get more Andor type projects, I'm all for it- no one asked for that and it's arguably the best thing Disney+ has produced


JewishMaghreb t1_j8w430s wrote

I’m not even a Star Wars fan and I thought Andor was perfect


AffectionateBox8178 t1_j95m99y wrote

Andor was 15-20 mil/episode and had 12 episodes.

Way too expensive for the lowest live action viewership/engagement.


DisneyDreams7 t1_j8wenhh wrote

It’s not really a continuation of Clone Wars since it’s lower in quality and the writing is pretty bad compared to Clone Wars. It’s more of a continuation of Rebels


magvadis t1_j8x4rkc wrote

Clone Wars writing was like 60% terrible so idk how it can be that much worse.


DisneyDreams7 t1_j8ycygc wrote

Avatar the Last Airbender’s writing was like 60% terrible so idk how it can be that much worse.


SaltySAX t1_j8z237a wrote

What Rebels, that is the best thing in the entire franchise? That Rebels?


Parking_Onion_3846 t1_j8vb4fs wrote

Their problem is that making good content means putting as much love into it as the fans do, but their approach isn't to make something fans love so much as it is to sell as much of it as possible.

Because they make some great stuff sometimes, we tend to forget or ignore that Disney only sets out to sell franchises. It's not like direct sequels to Pocahontas or The Hunchback of Notre Dame should exist, but they do because Disney will keep churning something out until it stops being profitable. And even then, they'll just reboot it somewhere down the line to start over again.


jak_d_ripr t1_j8x0wz8 wrote

I've been saying it for almost a decade now, it's insane that all these years later Star Wars still hasn't moved past the Skywalker saga. Not one movie or TV show has even flirted with the idea of leaving that saga behind.

It baffles my mind.


magvadis t1_j8x4nqj wrote

Which sucks because half their problem is the built relationship fans have with the core saga.

If they moved on past it in the timeline the ability to undermine desire would be a lot less.


jak_d_ripr t1_j8x97wg wrote

And what confuses me even more, is that one of the most beloved modern Star Wars adaptations is KOTOR.


magvadis t1_j8xamun wrote

I haven't played it yet so can't comment but it seems like needlessly edgy and pseudo-deep from my outside view....which I get why a bunch of teens would think it's a masterpiece. I'll have to wait till I play it to weigh in.


buzzinthruit89 t1_j8tin9b wrote

Marvel was only fun when every installment was a must-watch. They lost that after Wandavision


Loganp812 t1_j8wvjyh wrote

I'd argue that they lost that after Endgame. Either way, the end of Phase 3/early Phase 4.


buzzinthruit89 t1_j8x0h5l wrote

Yeah that’s an easy argument to make. I just felt like everyone watched Wandavision and not the rest of the MCU shows so I felt like including it


magvadis t1_j8x5cp5 wrote

I think that's partly the case but at the same time hamstringing the plot into this overarching narrative has been the main issue I've had with Phase 5. You have to stop the drama to go and introduce this new hero and give them an origin or talk about it.

It's just lame because it undermines the new character and the media they are in.

They did that before but we lived to see it come to fruition in later phases.

Imo, just introing another Thanos wouldn't keep people watching...been there done that.

If Kang is bigger than just Quantumania then maybe they can pull it off but Kang is a deep cut villain mostly as a bit in the animated media.


[deleted] t1_j8u7un9 wrote

I can just tell they're going to put out a whole bunch of soulless shows over the coming years and will milk their safe franchises until they're bone dry.


hooliganwho t1_j8vgwg4 wrote

The Marvel stuff just keeps getting worse


magvadis t1_j8x422s wrote

I thought we got like....2 good ones and 1 meh one out of this phase.

I just think standards are higher because that's about my opinion of every phase but like...3 and 4.


lightsongtheold t1_j8tzrt9 wrote

”You can have 10 mediocre shows or you can have five great shows,” says one agency partner whose clients work on the franchise plays. “People will still stay on Disney+.”

Someone needs to tell this dude streamers like Disney+ have month-to-month contracts and that savvy consumers will just churn out in the months between Marvel and Star Wars shows.


magvadis t1_j8x4wry wrote

They can still space content to be regularly available.

The problem is that there were periods that 2-3 shows were going at a time from both.

And 2 of the 3 were bad.


Malessar t1_j8v47h6 wrote

How about hiring writers and not giving titles to be directed by children who can't maintain continuity?

Problem isnt quantity its quality.

Somehow, palpatine has returned. For fucks sake, that line alone should have made them stop cranking garbage, but instead they turned the turdmaker up to 11.


katievspredator t1_j8wnop2 wrote

I bought the visual dictionary for Rise of Skywalker bc I thought it would be funny to have the visual dictionary for the worst movie of the franchise... The book doesn't mention Palpatine at all. Makes no attempt to explain any of it. The Amazon reviews are all complaining about it too. It made it even more funny to me


RIPN1995 t1_j8wqtqs wrote

I've 0 interest in seeing the new Ant Man, and Guardians movie any time soon.


magvadis t1_j8x3uc7 wrote

I trust James Gunn on Guardians....the problem is I just don't trust Marvel as a machine to do much of anything with their movies except cut half of it out to plug a new character.

What happened to solo movies?

All these new heroes are getting these forced origin stories in the middle of a plot that has nothing to do with them...which undermines their character and origin AND the movie they are in.


Iogwfh t1_j8ung45 wrote

As much as I enjoy some of the Marvel content how long did they really think it could last? The reality is there aren't that many fanatical fans and the longer the story goes the amount of content makes it intimidating for people who want to get into the series. Every story has to end at some point doesn't it?


nervuswalker t1_j8v8mos wrote

I’ll believe it when I see it, Disney


caseylk t1_j8wpv81 wrote

It’s already happened


verissimoallan OP t1_j8tbk32 wrote

>In what feels like a different timeline ago, at July’s San Diego Comic-Con, Marvel chief Kevin Feige put the pedal to the metal when he outlined five Disney+ shows for 2023 — What If …? season two, Echo, Loki season two, Ironheart and Agatha: Coven of Chaos. Now, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that Loki season two and the Samuel L. Jackson-led Secret Invasion are the only sure bets to debut this year. Even projects that wrapped months ago, such as the Hawkeye spinoff Echo and Wakanda Forever spinoff Ironheart, are unlikely to arrive in 2023 as the studio spreads out its content and tinkers in postproduction. And shows in development, such as Nova, are now on a slower path.


horseren0ir t1_j8wdkcy wrote

If next year is just what if, echo and Agatha they’re going to lose a lot of subscribers


BlitzTaco t1_j8tnacc wrote

I'd say 2015 was when it became to much


FreeSpeechEnjoyers t1_j8um6bx wrote

I think they should rethink input, because theyre putting in a lot of garbage.


BustermanZero t1_j8vfb92 wrote

If cost-cutting means less overmilking I'm fine with that. Probably won't solve the larger problem of doing too much 'safe' stuff instead of trying to create more new IPs but the oversaturation is very real.


cathbadh t1_j8vglxd wrote

Fewer shows with a bit longer seasons would make me much happier.


nonstripedzebra t1_j8wcfky wrote

I haven't been interested in Star Wars or Marvel for a decade. Guess I was never a true fan. Just seems like they are content just milking the shit out of all of it


FunWelcome t1_j8yvr64 wrote

I don't think the real problem is that there is too much Marvel or Star Wars. It's that there isn't really anything else.


nurdboy42 t1_j8vhs4m wrote

Why is Star Wars in quotation?


u2jrmw t1_j8we41e wrote

D+ already leaks enough content to make it worth subscribing every month. I easily go a month at a time without watching anything on there.


domotime2 t1_j8wfj3j wrote

Thought this was the 'nottheonion' reddit lol


soulwolf1 t1_j8wrkjh wrote

They really diluted both do you royally fuck up star wars??


[deleted] t1_j8wzhy6 wrote



magvadis t1_j8x3fy0 wrote

Honestly TLJ is the second best thing Disney has made besides maybe they need more of that and less of the childish nostalgia bait low brain garbage being peddled through the TV shows. Favreau made 2 good episodes in the Mando pilot and got praised and now entire quality of all the shows has nosedived until Andor somehow pulled a miracle and ended up the best Star wars media since Empire.


magvadis t1_j8x2bm9 wrote

It's not about quantity it's about the lack of quality control.

If all the shows were like Andor nobody would have a problem...but half of Mando is unwatchable. Most of Boba was unwatchable nostalgia bait and both shows have a specific need to recreate western tropes with zero twist.

Marvel is pretty much the same problem only more concentrated on the specific problem of story fatigue.

And it's not that I don't like superhero movies anymore...the formula is pretty universal. I don't like how modern marvel still needs to push plots and new characters in the middle of movies that have nothing to do with them...massively constraining the creative heights allowed in the very wacky setting.

Did I like Riri Williams in Wakanda Forever? Sure. Did I need her or Ross to be in the movie? No. Could the movie have improved with more time dedicated to the villain? Yes. Not to mention the plot was rather identical in structure to the first one with an early movie car chase into an action standoff during a pitched medieval style open area battle...aka...its not allowed to be fully creative.

Pretty much all my issues with 90% of marvel content stems from these side elements being placed into the movie arbitrary to the core dilemma and story. The moments where my brain has to switch off became I guess X character is being plugged because they are going to be in a new movie or tv show soon.

The only ones I've genuinely enjoyed did very little of this or were just so strong storytelling wise I got over it. Wandavision, Thor: Love and Thunder, Shang Chi, etc.


Darnell5000 t1_j8x52pf wrote

I mean I cancelled my Disney+ subscription because there hasn’t been new Marvel content since the Guardians Christmas Special and we still don’t have a date for Secret Invasion. Not worth paying $11 a month to occasionally watch an episode of The Simpsons or an old Marvel cartoon.


tryptaminedreamz t1_j8x6b6o wrote

I honestly wonder if streaming will even still exist in 10 years. It seems like all of these companies are struggling to make it work.


duskywindows t1_j8x9rbc wrote

This much. The current amount is “too much” lmao


Leading_Professor_80 t1_j8xfmsz wrote

They should really strive for quality over quantity. But either with rubbish shows like BOBF and The Mandolorian doing well there isn’t an incentive to try


daporp t1_j8xfoon wrote

You're supposed to ask these questions BEFORE you go all in on it...


Pascalwb t1_j8xtf6g wrote

it was too much 5 years ago or something.


a_phantom_limb t1_j8yvsx7 wrote

I really don't think that the problem is too much content. Instead, I think it's a problem of that content being too uneven. If every project were as acclaimed as Andor or WandaVision, no one would be writing articles like this.


Delicious-Tachyons t1_j8z3zc3 wrote

how high do they think their Disney Plus output is for Star Wars & Marvel? For each it's like 2 or 3 high profile 10 episode shows a year tops. That's it. Why would i sub to D+ if it's 1 show a year or a 4 episode series?


anonypony1 t1_j8z5pft wrote

Make that ish Rated R and we wouldn't be having these problems


Stonehill76 t1_j8zo3af wrote

Boba fett. Obi won kenobi so weren’t needed. I’d say andor too but it was a super interesting change in format. mandalorian is just wonderful and Pedro can do no wrong.


FlyingRock t1_j8zwalh wrote

Yup I want Star Wars expanded universe not more of the same old characters


Thin_River_775 t1_j95gmuq wrote

It's now quantity over quality making at any cost.


harshety t1_j95x8h7 wrote

Anything like clone wars, bad batch, visions and rogue one, give me more!


LLJedi t1_j98vccs wrote

So much is beyond the subscriptions. The Star Wars and marvel toys lunchboxes bedsheets etc.


thehankinato t1_j8xbdlw wrote

Just humor me, hear... Maybe it's not the quantity. Maybe it's the quality.

EDIT: I'm 37 years old. I've been watching star wars since I was old enough to form memories. The Mandalorian is passable and entertaining. I've ignored the animated series aside from the original Clone Wars mini series, much to the chagrin of the elitists. I felt the most recent film trilogy was awful. I'd grown tired of star wars... Until I watched Andor. God, it was amazing and it's just the type of story Star Wars needs to be modernized. Star Wars doesn't need less.. it needs more stories about the darkness surrounding idealism and revolution. Extreme times are cruel on all sides and black and white good vs evil doesn't really exist in modern storytelling, anymore. We're in the post-modern era of storytelling and Disney has entrenched itself in modernism.


Fahqbyach t1_j91d8yx wrote

The fucking CW does a better job of integrating their disparate superhero shows.


Magic_weegie t1_j8tl8u8 wrote

For all the scoopers who have to wait even longer for people to believe them, F in the chat, lol


[deleted] t1_j8vc4yy wrote

All we need is Andor and She-Hulk. Everything else is trash.


AndroidFive t1_j8vmy01 wrote

no star wars more and more marvel


kevindurant t1_j8vwdc9 wrote

They should probably cancel season 2 of Andor


Chemistryset8 t1_j8wbr3e wrote



AffectionateBox8178 t1_j95n05d wrote

Talking about cost.

It was the most expensive star wars show, by almost double(15-20m/ep), and had the lowest viewership engagement of the live action shows.